Front beam to chassis alignment

[carlos del carpio]

can you guys give me your opinion before I torque the front beam down? Just click the link, read, and report back here..thanks! I appreciate your input!

http://www.carlosdelcarpio.com/chassis30.htm

[David Head]

Seems kind of complicated. All I did was measure from the inside edge of the shock tower to the outside edge of the clamp. I did this on both sides and made sure the were of equal distance than torqued it down. Yours look fine to me. I don't think a hair is going to make that much different. Good Luck. David H

[carlos del carpio]

Well, thanks!

If it wasn't enough, I was going to use something to make sure the rear and front was parallel, but I wanted to make sure the beam was even left and right..very groovy, a step closer to completion.

[Butch Schmitt]

Great looking site by the way !!!

Carlos,

Hey how have you been? We have spoken on various boards over the years. In looking at you front end questions I think you may be measuring from the wrong place. You may have the shock towers in the center of the chassis, but many times the shock towers and the spindle area where the hub / bearings actually ride have no coloration with each other. I have seen shock towers being off anywhere from ¼” – ½” from one side to the other, especially on the Mexican / Brazilian reproductions. In my opinion if you want to be sure that car will track straight, I would measure from the center of the chassis to the hub where the wheel will mount, whether it would be a rotor or brake drum, or the most accurate would be to measure to the bead or center of the wheels you will be using.

By checking the shock towers, as you are presently doing, there are too many other variables that when added together could put you tracking way off, such as trailing arms, grub screw indents in your torsion bars, ball joints / king pin assembly’s, spindles etc. I am in the middle of helping a friend build a buggy, and the brackets where you would bolt the front beam to the stock chassis, were off by 3/8” on one side, had to remove and re weld that side in order to line up and this was a new beam.

I have been in the machine shop business for more than 30 years so I may be splitting hairs here and the way you are doing it may work fine and it may check out to be centered. I just thought I would share my thoughts and experience on this with you and advise you of other variables in the mix, I am in no way degrading the way you are doing it presently. There are probably buggy’s running around that are an inch or more off and perform fine, it just looks to me you have the time and want to do it right. Besides when you are blowing by some rice burner with a coffee can muffler and a carbon fiber hood, he could care less if your front beam is centered or not. Good Luck.

Thanks,
Butch

[carlos del carpio]

Hey Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuutch!

I think what I did, the first pics, show that the beam was 'true' left and right. From a center line, when I 'found' it, I not only did the tests/measurements shown in the pics, I did parallel measurements between the two tubes, I did 'criss cross' measuremnets, etc.... and it stacks up quite well, I think this beam was well put, which is rare for an empi product.... They are evenly halved, from the centerline out, out from straight measurements, and diagonal ones too.... Now that I know this, I think I just need an alignment/measurement from the front shock towers to the rear shock towers, cris cross, of course...

[Butch Schmitt]

Carlos,

O-K I understand what you are saying, as long as you understand that the shock towers are not a critical part of the axle for alignment purposes, they only support the top of the shock.

For the hell of it I just measured a new Empi King Pin axle that was delivered yesterday for my nieghbors buggy, the top of the shock towers are 1-1/8" narrower at the top than they are at the bottom. And the distance from the outside edge of the tower to the end of the tube, is 1/2" difference from one side to another. Think the guys welding these things are hitting the Tequila a little hard. I guess what I am trying to say is the Towers are not nessessarily centered on the beam itself, be sure you measure from the center of the chassis to the End of the beam just for good measure. I better shut up now, I'm starting to confuse myself. Thanks for listening.

Butch

[carlos del carpio]

Well...ok...I want to measure the beam without using/adding any other suspension components...just having the weight of itself, the beam, resting on the clamps, can damage the paint!

IF you had to use any part of the beam, as a stand alone piece, for measuring, what would you use? the bolt holes where the beam meets the type one body? I dunno, sheesh, this is more difficult than I thought..

Here is the reason why I am using the shock towers...

click below..

http://www.meyersmanx.com/images/garage/short15.jpg

[Butch Schmitt]

Carlos,

You are probobly fine in the what you are doing and maybe I should shut up, its just that the last several beams I have seen have beet real SH#T, and I am not sure that having the right tire sticking out 1" further from the centerline would ever be noticable or even present a problem. I understand what the picture is saying, but what if one of the towers is bent forward or backward, or if they were not parrallel to each other by an inch or more and you go chasing your tail trying to find out what the problem is.

If you ever watched the Nascar guys do it with a long straight edge or even a piece of string running from the outside edge of the back tire to the front tire. Its a very crude way but efective way of checking the tracking of the car after a wreck.

I was just helping a buddy build a deck, I kept measuring and making small adjustments and he finnally got fed up and said: For God Sakes Man, Your Not Building A Piano, Nail It. So much of this is probobly me. Like I said you are fine in what you are doing, just be aware of some other variables that may be in the equasion.

Good Luck,
Butch

[blackthree4me]

butch thanks for the info I can see the light now (brazialian quality)
keep up the good work. if not for the details
we will all be dog trackin. measure 5 time cut once.
blackthree4me

[carlos del carpio]

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH! I SEE! 3 dementions! I was measuring in two! I was assuming they were on the same plane! Yeah..... Are you saying, treat it like a 2X4? It may be WARPED or BOWED? Yeah, that third dimention! That totally blew my mind! You're right! Ok, I'll check that too!


2 beers for Butch!

[carlos del carpio]

hey guys!

I did a couple of more measurements, please review the following link, it leads to another page!! I appreciate your input!

http://www.carlosdelcarpio.com/chassis30.htm

Also, help me choose, the link is here! =)

http://www.carlosdelcarpio.com/pick_and_choose.htm

[Aquabuggy]

I like the black cover.
The white on black contrast looks sharp, but the white will be hard to keep clean.

[David Head]

I agree, The white looks real good but Keeping those covers clean are real hard. I would go with black, it will be much eaiser to hide the road grime. David

[David O']

Carlos, an easy way that always did the "squaring" and aligning of a chassis was to look at the chassis as a large triangle. I always found the points that I wanted to measure from (usually torsion pivots) and picked one end to measure from the two outside points to the center of the other suspension part (the distance between the pivots). Then went back and did the same with the other end. If the measurments worked out, then I would also measure the distance from the front to the rear and see if they are the same. Remember, triangles are the only geometric units that can not be bent "out of shape".
Start with a center line somewhere and then try the triangle bit and I think you will find out the this will help. Only important part is the you measure from a pivot point....as that is the only part the chassis will "see" as far a tracking right. I hope this is not confussing, and hope that it helps! Make sure that all of the parts are "straight" before you start!