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Re: New to site and buggies

Postby johber41 » Sun Sep 24, 2017 12:23 am

If it's a.009 distributor with no vacuum advance (009 are centrifical) you need to time the engine to the distributor. Throttle it up until you see the total advance at .32 degrees defore TDC and then let it fall back to idle. It should idle anywhere from 7 degrees BTDC to 11 degrees BTDC. Make sure that if you have changed from a vacuum advanced unit to a .009 unit that you plug the vacuum port on your carb. Hope this helps.
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Re: New to site and buggies

Postby Tappa » Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:03 am

johber41 wrote:If it's a.009 distributor with no vacuum advance (009 are centrifical) you need to time the engine to the distributor. Throttle it up until you see the total advance at .32 degrees defore TDC and then let it fall back to idle. It should idle anywhere from 7 degrees BTDC to 11 degrees BTDC. Make sure that if you have changed from a vacuum advanced unit to a .009 unit that you plug the vacuum port on your carb. Hope this helps.


The distributor is a Petronix electronic system which came with centrifugal advance and extra springs and weights. If i'm not mistaken it is set up with a 20 degree max advance from the factory so I may have to change the advance curve to reach 32. I will check it today and see where it is now.
I've been reading a lot about the EMPI HPMX carbs and not much is good. This one came on the buggy so I'm trying to make it work without spending any
more money at this point.

Thanks for the information, I'll give it a try
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Re: New to site and buggies

Postby staggerwing » Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:12 pm

32 degrees at 3000 rpm.
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Re: New to site and buggies

Postby Tappa » Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:01 pm

staggerwing wrote:32 degrees at 3000 rpm.

The paperwork that came with the distributor says it is equipped with a max of 24 degrees but when I checked mine
it continued to climb above 40 degrees. Is that too high?
Should it stop at 24 degrees or keep advancing with more rpms?
Do I need an advance limiter?

Thanks
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Re: New to site and buggies

Postby Tappa » Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:07 am

I'm finding out some interesting stuff about the problem I'm having. My distributor is set with max advance of 24 degrees and I have it set to around 8 degrees static. I didn't realize that you add the two together, so I have 8+24 or 32 max advance.
I've been reading a lot about the EMPI HPMX carb as well. It doesn't get very good reviews but I'm stuck with it for now. I read that the idle jets are prone to
stopping up with dust and dirt which really messes with setting the mixture correctly. I also found that the EMPI and Weber carbs share some of the same parts.
I read somewhere that to set the initial idle mixture on a Weber set idle out three turns then start the engine and tune from there. My instructions say to start with 1.5 turns and some other sites say to start at 1 turn out.
My findings so far support the 3 turns out to start. At one turn out the engine won't start. At 1.5 it will start but won't run up to any speed without popping. At there turns it starts and runs a little ragged but spins up without hesitation and doesn't seem to pop or bog and I don't hear any missing at higher rpms.
I haven't gotten to test it on the road yet but will do that this morning and report back. If it still runs bad, I will tear the carb apart and clean it before
trying it again.
The third thing I found out is a single carb setup needs the heat from the engine to keep it warm. They are normally used with heat tubes that direct heat from the engine to the carb. Mine doesn't have them, so maybe this is part of the problem as well.

Let me hear from you if you have anything to add or any tips for dealing with this problem.
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Re: New to site and buggies

Postby staggerwing » Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:12 am

Good information Tappa, keep posting!
Cool thing about these little cars is that each one is so different from the other, yet, relatively the same. Engines are the same. I'll bet the same dude could build two engines exactly the same and they'd be somehow different from each other.
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Re: New to site and buggies

Postby Bryan Porter » Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:44 pm

Down in Texas you don't need the heat tubes. Try cleaning your idle jets before you tear the carbs apart.
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Re: New to site and buggies

Postby staggerwing » Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:51 pm

In the words of true expert, Dr. Murzi, clean them till you know they're clean, then clean them again! Bryans right, clean Idle jets can be your best friends!
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Re: New to site and buggies

Postby Tappa » Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:31 am

Bryan Porter wrote:Down in Texas you don't need the heat tubes. Try cleaning your idle jets before you tear the carbs apart.


I have cleaned the carb inside and out. It did have some grit and dirt in it. The gasket between the manifold an the carb base is in pieces so
I will make a new one. I'm leaving for a weeks vacation so, when I get back I'll let you know if it runs any better.
Thanks
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Re: New to site and buggies

Postby Tappa » Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:52 pm

I was able to get the carb back together today and back on the car. I got it started and running fairly smooth at idle but haven't tested it on the street yet.
I'll report back after driving it.
It looks like we won't make it to the next event as we have had a trip to Florida on the calendar for months. I wasn't sure we would go with the hurricane and all the damage but it looks like we will make the trip after all.
Hope we can make the next event for sure.
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Re: New to site and buggies

Postby Tappa » Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:01 am

We are back from our trip to Sunny Florida, although it didn't live up to it's reputation for the Sunny part this time.
Had a great time but now back on the buggy to see if I can make it run. I worked on it yesterday just trying to tune the carb again.
I can get it to run pretty good while idling in the garage but as soon as I put it on the street it misses and stutters and pops through the exhaust.
Here is the procedure I used to tune the carb.
1. set idle mix screws to 1.5 turns out and started the engine
2 Let engine warm up, then turned each screw in, very slowly until I heard the engine slow down
3.Backed the screws out until the engine ran the smoothest
4.Turned the screws out 1/4 turn and test drove.
5.It wouldn't run good at all on the street, so then I would stop and turn the screws out another 1/4 turn or so and the same thing would happen.
6.Stop and turn screws in 1/2 turn, back to original starting place and try again.
7. I've done this over and over again and it just won't take gas and run smoothly at any rpm on the road with a load on it.

I'm taking this to mean it is running lean. Is this right?
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Re: New to site and buggies

Postby staggerwing » Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:37 am

Timing is good at 3000rpm?
Mating surfaces of carb/manifold are FLAT?
No air leaks around manifold anywhere else?

Spray some carb cleaner or similar around manifold flanges to make sure gaskets are sealing, then spray the surfaces to make sure the darn thing ain’t cracked somewhere.

Do have a spare working distributor you can try?
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Re: New to site and buggies

Postby Tappa » Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:21 pm

staggerwing wrote:Timing is good at 3000rpm?
Mating surfaces of carb/manifold are FLAT?
No air leaks around manifold anywhere else?

Spray some carb cleaner or similar around manifold flanges to make sure gaskets are sealing, then spray the surfaces to make sure the darn thing ain’t cracked somewhere.

Do have a spare working distributor you can try?


Thanks, I will check for vacuum leaks first. I did notice the rubber sleeves that attach the two parts of the intake manifold were cracked from age or heat.
I made new gaskets for the carb to manifold so no leaks there.
I just installed a new Petronics pointless distributor as my old one had no spark. I set the timing with a light at 7 degrees BTDC. The distributor came set at 24 degrees max advance.
I'll check the timing again just to make sure it's 32 at 3000rpm. I'll let you know what happens.

thanks for all your help
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Re: New to site and buggies

Postby Bill K » Mon Oct 09, 2017 2:25 pm

I was running a 009 distributor with a Pic 34 carb on my stock 1600. I could never get it to run right.

Someone recommended changing to a Pic 30-31. I did it and problem solved. I'm not sure if that is your problem or not, but I thought I'd share my experience with you.
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Re: New to site and buggies

Postby Tappa » Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:10 pm

After playing with the carb again today, I think the idle jets are too small. I kept backing out the idle jet screws until it would take fuel without spitting and it sounded good at about 5.5 to 6 half turns out. Any more than that and it won't run. As soon as I get in the car and start putting a load on it, it just spits and sputters. I think I need larger idle jets which would deliver more fuel upon take off and low rpm driving. I read somewhere that with a single carb the jets should be up around a number 65 or 70. I think mine are 55. I'll pull them out to make sure.
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Re: New to site and buggies

Postby Bill K » Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:28 pm

Have you checked your accelerator pump?
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Re: New to site and buggies

Postby Tappa » Tue Oct 10, 2017 4:50 am

Bill K wrote:Have you checked your accelerator pump?


I haven't checked it specifically. I did clean it good when I had the carb apart.
Looks like I need to take the carb off again, so I'll check it then.
Thanks for the suggestion.
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Re: New to site and buggies

Postby Tappa » Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:51 am

Bill K wrote:Have you checked your accelerator pump?


I checked the accelerator pump and made a small adjustment which did help the motor take fuel smoother.
I'm now wondering if I put the distributor in wrong, but I don't think it would run at all if were out 180 degrees.
The only thing I can think of is if I didn't get the number one cylinder set to TDC correctly but again I don't think
it would run at all if that were the case. Anybody?
I think I'll check the number one at TDC again to make sure I did it right.
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Re: New to site and buggies

Postby Bryan Porter » Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:34 pm

Distributor will only go in one way if you look at the edge where the cap Goes on there is a notch and that is where the Number one wire should go so bring the motor up to number 1 Top Dead Center and turn the distributor to line up the rotor with the notch and then set your timing from there
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Re: New to site and buggies

Postby Tappa » Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:40 pm

Bryan Porter wrote:Distributor will only go in one way if you look at the edge where the cap Goes on there is a notch and that is where the Number one wire should go so bring the motor up to number 1 Top Dead Center and turn the distributor to line up the rotor with the notch and then set your timing from there


i will double check that in the morning.

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Re: New to site and buggies

Postby Tappa » Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:44 pm

All the input from the great people on this forum has gotten me this far and after many suggestions I made the decision to
start over with finding TDC on #1 and checking all the valve lash which was .006 on all cylinders.
I installed 4 new spark plugs gapped at .024. As I was checking the rotor and where it was pointing at TDC, I realized
it was pointed behind the #1 terminal on the distributor cap. I then rotated the distributor until it pointed right at the
terminal. Then I used a test light and set the static timing until the light just went off as I turned the distributor clockwise then locked
it down.
I turned the carb idle jets at 1.5 turns out and cranked the car. I had to back the idle screws out a little to get it to keep running.
Then I worked on the idle until I had it running nice and smooth, no more stutter and popping. I have it where it will drive but it still
seems to have a lack of power and starts to miss with a load like going up a hill. Runs great as long as it is going on level or down hill.
Is this a lean or rich problem??
Not sure which way to go with the idle mixture at this point.
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Re: New to site and buggies

Postby Tappa » Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:17 pm

Today I was able to get the buggy to run much better and I think it is almost tuned perfectly. It doesn't like to run when its cold but once it warms up it seems to be running much better. I didn't know how little movement it took to make a difference in the idle jets. A little more work with it and I think it will run like a sewing machine.
I actually got to drive it around the neighborhood today.
This weekend is the annual Wolf Creek Car and bike show which attracts 3-400 cars and bikes. It is put on by the Coldspring chamber of Commerce at Wolf Creek Park on Lake Livingston. I have been the official photographer for the last 4years but this year I have been invited to be a judge as well. I'm taking the buggy to the show and would like to invite as many members as possible to come join the fun and festivities. We have never had any dune buggies at the show so this would be a good opportunity to introduce this group of car people to this type of vehicle.

Thanks for all your help with my buggy and I hope to meet you in the near future.
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Re: New to site and buggies

Postby Tappa » Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:08 am

latest update on buggy status:

I have named my buggy "The Deuce"
I think I have mentioned in a prior post that my buggy came with a single carb but there was a pair of carbs in the trunk. I have since put the dual carb setup on and it looks great. I now have a single two barrel carb with intake manifolds and linkage available if anyone needs one.
I finally had to give up on getting the Deuce running myself. I was referred to a company fairly close to me, called "Markemdone Vintage VW Repair and Restoration" in Huntsville. I towed it over there Friday and he already has it running and will finish tuning and checking a few other issues this week.
The owner's name is Mark and he has been working on VWs for over 40 years and attends many VW events around Texas. When he saw my buggy, he said he had never seen a body like it in all his years in the hobby. I don't know if it is a rare body but I can't seem to find out much about it. JSC has been out of business for many years and so far I haven't located anyone that worked there during the heyday.

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Re: New to site and buggies

Postby johber41 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:42 pm

That static timing is a cool aspect with the light bulb and all.....but I recommend you put a timing light on it and you will see an adjustment difference. Using a timing light, and a calibrated crank pulls , I hope, take the car in idle to 3000 rpms, and make sure u are achieving a max advance of 32 degrees. Let the engine fall back to idle, and you should idle anywhere from 500 to 800 rpms, with the timing showing anywhere from 7.5 to 11 degrees btdc.

I played with all that static timing stuff but really did not get all I could out of my 1200 till then.
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Re: New to site and buggies

Postby Tappa » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:06 am

Thanks for the tips on timing. I've turned it over to someone that knows his stuff on these engines and hope to get it back by the end of this week.

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